The Pursuit of Happiness: What Should We Do After We Come Out?

tom_matthewsOctober 12, 1997
By Thomas J. Mathews

Presented at a joint meeting of Wasatch Affirmation and the Delta Lambda Sappho Union Weber State University

“You can’t pursue happiness in the dark.” –Daniel Mendelssohn

Introduction

I wanted to talk about coming out tonight, since yesterday was national coming out day. I read something a few weeks ago in a book edited by Bruce Bauer, in an article by Daniel Mendelssohn. He wrote, “You can’t pursue happiness in the dark.” He was writing specifically about coming out. He was also writing about gay rights and he comments that it often seems, at least in New York, that gay rights have to do with the right gym and the right bar and the right outfit. His argument is that gay bars and other places where gays congregate are often as dark and as stifling as the closet, and that coming out shouldn’t mean going back in. That’s why he says you can’t pursue happiness in the dark.

I’m only going to make one comment about gay marriage. I read a paper a year and something ago at Sunstone and then again at the Affirmation Conference last August about gay marriage and one of my points was that gay unions can serve as a model for heterosexual unions. If a lesbian couple decides that one of them is going to work and the other is going to stay home, if a gay couple decides that one is going to pay the bills and the other is going to mow the lawn, it’s because they decide to do it that way. There’s no culturally defined way to divide up the work. That doesn’t mean that they’ll all be totally equal, indeed they may divide up the work in a rather traditional way, but they’ll do it by choice.

A week ago yesterday, the Promiskeepers met in Washington, DC. Promiskeepers for those of you that haven’t read the news are a group of evangelical men who make promises to treat their families better and live better in society, (which in and of itself is probably a good goal). One of the more outrageous statements, at least the one that hit all the headlines, was made when the leader of Promiskeepers argued that men in a marriage ought to be the tiebreaker. I find that an outrageous thing to say. Men, by their sex, because they have an X and a Y chromosome, get to break the tie.

Of course the allusion is to sports, where ties don’t happen very often, and when they do happen we find a way to break them. This is at least true in our American sports (you know, football, baseball, basketball). We don’t like ties. In sports they are relatively rare and we break them. We want to make sure there is a winner and a looser. The fact of the matter is, I would guess, that in marriage ties are indeed rare, also. Although I’ve never been married, I’ve seen a lot of marriages and dissolution of marriages in my family. Generally people disagree and that’s not a tie, that’s the disagreement. A tie is when things are the same, in marriage you don’t want to break a tie. You want to leave it alone. So what the head Promiskeeper is saying is that in the majority of instances, when a husband and wife disagree on something, the husband has the prerogative of making the decision. I find that outrageous. I think heterosexuals could learn a lot by observing working gay unions to see how they work.

What is Coming Out?

Yesterday was National Coming Out Day. I came out one NCOD, October 11, though not necessarily by choice. What has always struck odd me about National Coming Out Day is that it is just one day. I wonder if you can really do it in a single day. I wonder if that’s healthy. I have heard some argue have said that coming out is a life long process. I also wonder if that’s truly healthy. Must we spend our lives doing something and feeling that it’s unfinished, when it is something that can really be done?

I see coming out like peeling an onion. A layer at a time. (It will usually make you cry). But it does get done. It can be over with.

Some people comment that once you’re out you still have to come out all the time. I wore this little rainbow pin all last week in my classes. A couple of students on about the third day of class, in the back row, as I was walking around doing exercises in Spanish, they said, “What flag is that?” I said “Well that’s a flag for gay pride.” Now if I had said that at BYU, where I worked for five years, their jaws would have hit the floor. But here at Weber State they didn’t bat an eye and they said, “Oh, we thought maybe it was the Spanish flag.” So I’ll admit that you do get to inform people of you sexual identity over and over throughout your life. But that, for me, is not the same gut wrenching process that my real “coming out” was.

As I’ve talked about coming out as either a one day process or a life-long process, I’m really introducing the topic of my talk this evening, which is continua. I don’t think that coming out is necessarily most healthy as a one day thing, nor most healthy as a life-long incremental process. I think there’s a happy ground in between. I’m going to talk about several continua. People distribute themselves along the line of a continua. We’re familiar with a lot of them. I’ll mention several particularly dealing with homosexuality.

My Coming Out Story

First, I’d like to talk about how I came out. I was a student here at Weber State years ago. Graduated from here. I was an LDS missionary in Spain and when I came back my parents had moved to beautiful Ogden, so I went to Weber and majored in Spanish. And I really liked Weber. It was at that point that I was coming to grips with this whole idea of homosexuality. I went to the Weber State library, which (to any librarians in here, no offence), but it’s kind of pathetic). I looked up homosexuality. There were a few books on it, and the only one that really was very interesting, that didn’t say I was evil and going to hell was this one (I brought a visual aid-I didn’t steal it). This is Sexual Behavior in the Human Male by Kinsey. It’s fabulous reading as you can tell. This chart, for example, shows outlet, age and frequency among adolescent and married males, occupation class and when we have sex and with whom and how often.

Kinsey came up with a continuum and he was one of the first sexologists to do that with homosexuality in specific. Kinsey was the ultimate social scientist. A lot of people have badmouthed his work in the last 50 years, but at the time it was rather cutting edge. Kinsey said we can only talk about things we can measure. We can only measure things we can see or demonstrate. So we can’t talk about the way people feel, or the way the want to be, or how they think they are, we can only talk about what they do. Today we’ve got a way, we think, of measuring those other things too, but Kinsey would only count how often people had sex with other people. When he talked about the “homosexual” he was not referring to a homosexual person, but rather he meant the sexual outlet for homosexual activity. He described as a zero a man who has never had sex, ever in his life, with another man. So as far as the “homosexual” is concerned he’s a zero. Some people mistakenly interpret Kinsey’s scale to mean that a zero is a man who is exclusively heterosexual. This is not necessarily so. A zero is a man who has never had sex with another man. He may have sex with women or he may not have sex with women. He may have sex with horses. He may have sex with himself. But he has never had sex with another man, so he’s not homosexual. Kinsey is not saying anything about what other kind of things he might be.

A six, on the Kinsey scale is a man who has exclusively had sex with other males. Now that may only be once in his life, but he’s never had sex with anyone else. Kinsey divides these poles into a continuum.

0 1 2 3
4
5 6
NO SAME-  SEX OUTLET
ABOUT HALF
AND HALF
EXCLUSIVELY
SAME-SEX OUTLET

 

The interesting thing about Kinsey’s continuum is that he puts it on a bell curve. It was thought, in Kinsey’s day and age, that all naturally occurring social phenomena happen on a bell curve. The average male, Kinsey thought, had about half of his sex with men, and about half of his sex with women. Kinsey wrote that 50% of men have had reached orgasm with another man at some point in their lives since puberty. The average man if you just pick one of the street, is bisexual. (I should mention that Kinsey wrote a second volume just as thick on Sexuality in the Human Female and, no offence, but it’s really dull).

There is another kind of curve. This is called a U curve, or a bipolar curve. A lot of people are at one end of the continuum and a lot of people are at the other. I didn’t realize that this was a possibility until long after I’d graduated from Weber State and finished reading Kinsey. I am a Kinsey 6. Even reading his book on female sexuality or looking at the graphs didn’t do anything for me.

How gay am I? I failed physical education in the second grade. And I remember the note my teacher sent home because my mother yelled it at me for five weeks. It was: “Tommy refuses to play games with the other boys.” I took ballet lessons in the third grade. That was the second time in the third grade, because I failed everything in the third grade the first time through. My sister had been taking ballet lessons on scholarship with the Ford Foundation and I got to sit there and watch and wait while she took her lessons on Thursdays after school. Irena Koffmoska, the ballet teacher saw me sitting there week after week. Of course, any boy could get a scholarship to take ballet lessons. So without asking me she talked to my mom about me dancing on Thursday afternoons, instead of just sitting there. Mom was thrilled. I did that for a year, and I gave it up after a year. It was too embarrassing.

I was always, throughout high school and college, overtly nervous and often frightened when dating women-particularly at the ends of dates with women. I knew what to do, I just didn’t want to. I was scared of it. I’m a Kinsey 6.

Reading Kinsey’s book was thoroughly interesting, but not helpful. What it told me, as it described it’s bell curve, is that I was still an absolute weirdo. Maybe no more weird than a true heterosexual, but still strange.

Coming out for me, and I think for many people, happened in two stages. First was a self-realization, which for me took a very long time. Then, many years after I came to that realization, was coming out to family and then coming out publicly.

I think that what we celebrate on October 11, is public coming out. Maybe coming out to family. For me that part of coming out was sudden and rapid. It was the next closest thing to being outed. It happened on National Coming Out Day 1995. My name, sometimes with my picture accompanying it, and an article about me by the Associated Press was in all of the daily newspapers in Utah, and some of the national press. I had a blurb twice in the Advocate, (notably the Advocate always spelled my name wrong). The shortest blurb was in USA Today: “PROVO, UT. Brigham Young University-Professor Thomas Matthews [spelled incorrectly] who made his homosexuality public in 1994 says he will leave the school because he cannot commit to celibacy.”

I didn’t make that news—actually Rex Lee, who was president of BYU did. I had started coming out at BYU, to students, to friends, to church leaders, and somebody decided to tell an Apostle. I had my 15 minutes of fame in the Quorum of the Twelve. They had me interviewed with one of the BYU vice presidents and it really was no problem. But I told Vice President Britsch at the time that I was not planing at staying indefinitely at BYU. I would have been up for tenure review this year had I stayed. They were, of course, very relieved by that.

Several months later, in October of 1995, President Lee was giving his monthly news conference and a newspaper reporter asked “What are you going to do about the gay professor?” President Lee was an interesting man. He died a year ago. But for a living he spoke in front of the Supreme Court. Rex Lee argued as many supreme court cases as any other man in the history of the United States. He was a terribly articulate man and you would think that he would therefore know precisely what effect his words would have on people. But nobody had asked him about me before and I imagine he hadn’t thought it through. He said, and I paraphrase, “it’s uncomfortable for the university and Dr. Mathews has announced that he’s planning on leaving.” Actually, I hadn’t announced that but that’s what became national news.

Several Continua

So far I’ve mentioned a couple of continua. One is the Kinsey scale for “How Homosexual Are You?” Another is a scale for “How Out Are You?” I’d like to talk about several others.

Recently most of the literature on homosexuality is starting to describe sexual behavior as a U curve. Particularly Dean Hamer and Simon LeVay and others have argued that most people are either heterosexual or homosexual, with a lot of people falling in between. But these aren’t the majority. The majority state unequivocally “I am gay” or “No I’m not.”

Some time ago I got an anonymous email message. I could tell he was a librarian from the email address. Otherwise I knew nothing about him. He used an alias; I’ll call him Mark. He was reaching out. He’d never had any contact with any “gay community.” He’d seen my name in the paper and looked up my email address. He suggested that Gay Mormons exist along a continuum with Evergreen at one end (Evergreen believes in Reformation, Reclamation and Repair), groups like Reconciliation or Family Fellowship in the middle, and Affirmation at the other end. He wanted my opinion on the matter. I came to learn that Mark was a completely closeted and married homosexual man, who had never been a part of any of the groups he mentioned, but that he believed that Evergreen was a good group and Affirmation was a bad group. I did share my opinion with him. Since then my thoughts have developed into what I’ll share with you tonight.

Physiological & Chromosomal Sex

It is a very common misconception to conclude that the poles of a continuum represent good and bad, or indeed that any judgment can be made at all. One very obvious sexual continuum is physiological and chromosomal sex. People, of course, fall out on this continuum in a textbook U-shaped curve. The vast majority of humans are either undeniably male or undeniably female. The “intersex states” (chromosomal females that look like males, or vice versa) are statistically rare, but are common enough to let us define physiological sex as a continuum. Otherwise it would just be an either/or proposition. There are lots of people who fall somewhere between a boy and a girl. “We think you had a girl, but we need to do some snipping!” Or “Pick a name and we’ll decide on these things later.” Although we have a good bipolar distribution on a continuum, this is not a basis at all for us to say that one end of the continuum, either male of female, is good and the other bad. Certainly, culturally a lot of people do that. One end is superior to the other. I don’t think there’s any basis for it.

Other continua that are commonly used in discussing homosexuality include, Gender Identity (whether, without regard to one’s physiological sex, one considers oneself to be a man or a woman) and Sexual Orientation (whether one is attracted to individuals of the same of the opposite sex). The idea of Gender Role’s can also be placed along a continuum in any culture, from those who comfortably and willingly follow the roles assigned to their sex, to those who rebel against the roles imposed on their gender. Our culture certainly has expectations. If a person is physiologically female (i.e., two X-chromosomes) she should also feel like a woman, act like a woman and want to have sex with men. Men, of course, should feel manly, act macho, and want to have sex with women.

As I said, it is easy to be judgmental, but I don’t think it’s right. Our culture, however, is very judgmental. You line up the continua, and say “You would be here, here and here.” If you’re not, you’re a weirdo.

So Mark, in creating a Gay Mormon Continuum with Good Guys at one end and Bad Guys at the other, had made, in my opinion, two mistakes. First, he saw things in terms of black and white. And second, he put everything together in one simple choice, Good vs. Bad. This evening I’d like to talk about three continua that we may find ourselves playing along with after we come out of the closet.

Outness & Community Identity

The first continuum deals with how out a person is, and with what community that person identifies. This Outness Continuum has to do with self-perception and outward identification. At the right end (of course, I picked the ends arbitrarily) we have men or women who are completely out, vehemently proud, often offensively in-your-face, and will never apologize for who they are, what they think, or how they behave. (I make no claim here about the way they do behave–they may be sluts or virgins–but they’re completely open and unapologetic about whatever their behavior may be).

The other end of this Outness Continuum (on the left) represents those who are deeply in the closet and have never used the word “gay” to refer to themselves. They follow Elder Packer’s advice and shun the word “homosexual” except as an adjective. Following the Evergreen model, they prefer to use acronyms and euphemisms–“same sex attraction,” “defensive detachment,” “father hunger,” (which isn’t what you think) or the absurdity presented a year or so ago by LDS Social Services-“non-gay homosexuals.” They look at the flamboyant, pushy and provocative affirmation of the “gays” at the right end of this continuum and they shy away in horror, thinking, hoping, pleading, “I am not one of those.” Certainly, I am giving speeches as “one of those” now, but I fell into the category of denying it for a long time.

I really believe that the great majority of Gay Mormons begin very far to the closeted left end of this continuum. Slowly, but I think inevitably, we move to the right. Hopefully, only a few lose their moorings completely and bound all the way to the outrageous activism found at the other end. I say it’s outrageous because I thing some people define their lives in terms of the sexual identity-and I don’t think that’s healthy either. I am a university professor, but I don’t completely define my life in terms of being a professor. That would be unhealthy. Still, neither end of the Outness Continuum is a healthy place to be. The fear and self-loathing at one end is no better and no worse than the pride and hedonism at the other.

Spirituality

A second continuum describes the moral attitude and spiritual strength of Gay Mormons. I am using the word spiritual in a Mormon way and not in an. . . Affirmation way. When I say spiritual I mean what your Aunt Millie thinks is spiritual. At the left end is the morality presented by the LDS Church, and espoused and followed more or less faithfully by Evergreen. “All sexual relations outside of marriage are a sin.” Moreover, in their thinking, same-sex affection becomes overtly sexual and therefore offensive, much faster than similar heterosexual behavior. Straits are allowed, even encouraged, to date, to dance, to hold hands, to cuddle, to kiss.

At the left of this axis, none of these behaviors are acceptable for the homosexual Mormon. (Even the Evergreen-types are not clearly at the far end; I’ve attended several meetings with Evergreen, and there’s a lot of fraternal hugging and supposedly proper “male bonding” that goes on).

At the other end of the Spiritual Continuum is moral anarchy and probably atheism. These Gay Mormons have lost all belief and faith in the Church and in the Gospel. Towards the center are people who have found the LDS Church stifling, and yet retain a spiritual sensitivity and a desire to worship. They may attend LDS services only rarely, or join congregations from more tolerant traditions. Again, in my opinion, neither end is a good place to be. The frustration and sterile loneliness at the one end is just as damaging to the soul as the complete lack of purpose or direction at the other.

Sexual Behavior (with whom, how often)

The third continuum I want to talk about is the Sexual Continua. The left pole represents total abstinence and virginity (at least as far as same-sex relations are concerned). At the center is a healthy view of human sexuality, and a sex-life akin to that of well-behaved heterosexual Mormons. Gays here search for long, committed, monogamous relationships. To find that, they date and show appropriate affection paralleling the courtship of strait Mormons. At the other end is promiscuity and sexual abandon. “If it feels good do it.” Any talk of sexual morality or restraint is viewed as a personal value judgment or an uncalled-for condemnation. These people often feel that they will go to hell no matter what, so they might as well have fun getting there. Or they’ve given up belief in hell altogether.

Gay Mormons

One of the major problems with a single continuum, as Mark the librarian proposed, is that it encourages people to arrive at simplistic assumptions that only tend to reinforce stereotypes. If I collapse all three scales-the Outness, the Spiritual and the Sexual Continua-into one and then find a gay man who is completely out of the closet and comfortable talking about homosexuality and his own feelings, I will want to place him at the far right end of this single scale, and I will then assume that he is also spiritually dead and sexually promiscuous. This is of course absurd.

Since my picture appeared in the paper two years ago, I have been as out as a person can get in the state of Utah, yet I am near the opposite end of the spectrum in terms of sexual experience and I do still try to keep myself in tune with the Spirit as I work out my relationship with God and my Church.

While I was teaching at BYU, I was accused (on the radio) of being a “practicing homosexual,” not because the speaker (who was president of the BYU “Ditto-Heads Club”-a bunch of Rush Linbaugh wanna-be’s) necessarily believed that I was engaging in homosexual acts, but simply because I was talking about my homosexuality. Talking about it means I’m practicing it. This is an unacceptable conflation of the Gay Continuum (the Outness Continuum) and Sexual Continuum.

Defining Gay Mormons along three continua allows for a lot more variation in the community than we can see if we measure everything against just one yardstick. The Evergreen-types, for example, tend to cluster around the left end of all three continua (not very out, still clinging to strict Mormon ethics, and aiming for celibacy). Of course, anyone involved in Evergreen is evidently out to himself and at least partially out to the community, in that the other members of the Evergreen chapter will know their secret. Although the Evergreen members I have talked to represent a wide variation in sexual experience and history, at least at the present they are hoping to maintain Church standards both spiritually and sexually.

The people who I know that attend Reconciliation meetings cover a rather broad spectrum, particularly in regards to their relative outness and their sexual activity. Many are still rather closeted. Others are out to the world. Spiritually they tend to cluster toward the center. They have realized that the Church’s paradigm for change is not realistic, and thus cracks have formed in their faith in the Gospel and more so in their trust of Church leaders, yet they continue to struggle to fit their acknowledged sexual orientation with their ongoing spiritual feelings and religious heritage.

As a member of Affirmation, my experience is that this group, as the only national Gay Mormon organization, has members scattered all over the place. They do tend to avoid the Evergreen corner, and they tend to be better represented on the out and sexually active side of things. Some are clearly clinging, however they can, to the faith they have. Others are roundly anti-Mormon. Some are celibate, others are married (to women (or to men, but in straight relationships), many seek or are in monogamous same-sex unions, others jump from one short-lived relationship to another.

Some in both Reconciliation and Affirmation view their sexuality as a gift. Some use that gift liberally. Some are saving it for true love and commitment. Gay Mormondom represents a great deal of diversity. Groups like Affirmation allow us all to come together. It’s comforting for me just being with people who have at least some things in common and usually we are quite able to overlook the glaring differences in behavior and belief.

I’m sure placement on these three continua-Outness, Sexual Behavior, and Spirituality-is correlated, but I also believe that the three aspects move independently of one another. This allows for the tremendous variety that exists among Gay Mormons. Obviously, the most visible among us are those at the right end of all three scales. Promiscuous. Immoral. Loud. It is sad that the world tends so readily to judge all gays on the sometimes obscene stereotype presented by those who are merely the most visible.

The Church’s View of Things

It has been argued, though not extensively, that St. Paul may have been a homosexual. A rather latent one I think. His is the only scripture that clearly and definitively seems to denounce homosexuality. But Paul wrote of his “thorn in the flesh.” I believe that our thorns are often the result of an errant belief that spirituality, sexuality and gay identity can all be conflated to mean the same thing. It is a mistake to believe that spirituality and homosexuality are incompatible, or even that homosexuality and chastity are inconsistent. I think the greatest difficulty the Church has had in dealing with homosexuality is its refusal to acknowledge the variety of situations that exist in the Gay Mormon population. The Church has placed all gay men and women on one simple continuum, and therefore assumes that a simple solution to the problem is possible.

I know a young man in his 20s, admittedly a virgin, and still completely in the closet to his family and community. He very much treats his homosexuality as a “thorn in the flesh.” He felt he could not serve a mission. He finds it quite difficult to go to Church. He recognizes that he will never be rid of his homosexuality, and yet he has a suicidal fear of going to hell. Several times he has wondered aloud if it might be that the Church is right about everything. I worry about him. Frankly, the Church has proffered him no help, and as things stand, I doubt the Church will be able to.

The Church desperately wants all gays to believe blindly and to demonstrate the kind of insipid spirituality that is all too common in most of our Sacrament Meetings. The Church is often quick to excommunicate those who start moving away from that end of the spirituality scale. The common result of excommunication is a tragic retreat to the immoral end of the Spirituality Continuum. People reason: “If the Church abandons me, then I will abandon the Church.” “If the Church is so very wrong on this issue, then everything the Church teaches must be just as wrong.”

Similarly, the Church is fanatical in its crusade to keep gays and lesbians near the chaste end of the Sexual Continuum. I’m using the word “chaste” the way your Aunt Millie used it too. The Church is too often ruthless in the excommunication of those who begin to move toward the center. Again, the common result is a slide into sexual debauchery.

The Church is also quite uncomfortable when we stray from the closet. Homosexuality is a taboo, and no one must ever talk about it. Perhaps I’m making too strong a point here, since the word has appeared in the Ensign several times now, but it’s been very recent. As Gays move toward self acceptance and seek help from others, they are told to stop, to keep quiet and to keep personal things to themselves.

Conclusion

I want to say that coming out was the best thing I’ve ever done. I am surrounded both at work and in my family and at Church with people who at least have a shot at knowing who I really am. Better yet, I don’t have to hide anything anymore. Moving out of the closet is an honest move into the light. Going back to the quote at the beginning of my talk, “You can’t pursue happiness in the dark.”

At the same time, coming out of the closet was the most frightening thing I’ve ever done. At the time I knew it would cost me my job, and it did. I was also afraid it would cost me the few real relationships that I had with people. With few exceptions, it did not. The fear I had that my family would reject me, turned out to be irrational, in my case.

But my other fear was that people would make wide ranging judgments about me based on one bit of information. With my affirmation that I am a gay man, they would therefore make assumptions about other aspects of my life. This is what I think is at the core of all prejudice and stereotype.

Many people, when they come out, go through a “rebellious stage.” If religious constraints have kept you at the “spiritual” end of things, you go to church twelve hours a week, you shun all homosexual thought and affection and thus live a cloistered life with no affection at all, when you finally get rid of that and you’re “free” you pop down to the other end of the continuum. But eventually you probably come back and find a life that’s meaningful.

It has been suggested that it might be nice if people don’t come out too publicly until they’re through with the rebellious stage. I don’t know that I agree with the premise that people shouldn’t come out until they’re going to put a pretty face on everything. We need to see more people coming out at all points on all three continua. Still, I think we particularly need to see the mass of gay men and women that are at the middle of these continua. These are normal and well rounded people with all the foibles and all the virtues that most people have. These will be more helpful to the cause than people who have nothing to loose by coming out–those who have already alienated their community, who have already alienated their family, whose only friends are already out.

In closing, let me say that I believe the only way to fight the sort of prejudice that comes from ignorance is to come out. I was a graduate student at the University of Delaware. The state of Delaware has a considerable African American population which in not well represented, as far as numbers go, at the university. That is, the percentage of black people in the state is much higher that the percentage of black students at the university. Every year the University of Delaware had a number of events during African American awareness month. Once a professor in sociology handed around a survey to all kinds of students and faculty alike, and it asked questions about how many African American friends you had. “Have you ever been on a date with an African American? Or, if you’re black, have you ever been on a date with a white person? Have you ever eaten in the home of an African American family?” Those kinds of things. I was shocked. I had to answer “no” to every one of them. This is not because I’d grown up in a community where there were few possibilities for me. I grew up in Los Angeles, where there were lots of opportunities for me to overcome stereotypes, but I never got out of my racial closet.

As you get to know people you become aware that they are indeed real people. It is for that reason that coming out for everybody is an important thing to do. The more out you are the more you fight prejudice, the more you allow people to see that you are a real person.

Randall Thacker

Randall Thacker grew up in Taylorsville, Utah, the youngest of three children. He recognized his attraction to the same sex when he was about 8 years old. He grew up focusing prayers, fasts, and birthday candle wishes on removing this attraction.

Not long after returning from a Spanish-Speaking mission to North Carolina, he reached out for help to his BYU bishop who referred him to counseling. The counseling focused on changing Randall’s orientation because he longed to create an ideal Mormon family with many children.

After graduating from BYU with a B.A. in History, Randall moved to Salt Lake City, where after falling in love with a straight friend, he returned to reparative therapy and began attending group therapy as well. Luckily, one of the group therapists introduced Randall to the possibility of self-acceptance.

Randall’s journey of self-acceptance was a long one though, which included a moment of great despair shortly after moving to Washington, DC in 2002. Thanks to compassionate friends and family and a new understanding that he could separate God from emotionally harmful doctrine, Randall moved on. After almost ten years of studying and visiting other faiths and at times none at all, Randall returned to regular attendance at his local LDS ward in 2011, embraced by ward leaders who are welcoming and affirming. “I know that God and spirituality are broader than just the LDS church, yet I also have a testimony of the Restoration and feel the Spirit guiding me to walk my journey of spiritual growth as a Latter-Day Saint.”

Besides his work with Affirmation, Randall is passionate about improving education in Mexico and loves his work as a management consultant and leadership coach, helping individuals and organizations reach their potential. He enjoys rowing, bicycling, running, skiing, reading, and spending time with family and friends.

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John Gustav-Wrathall

John Gustav-Wrathall is an adjunct professor of American Religious History at United Theological Seminary of the Twin Cities. He is the author of Take the Young Stranger by the Hand: Same-Sex Dynamics and the Young Men's Christian Association (University of Chicago Press, 1998). He has also published articles in Sunstone and Dialogue on being gay and Mormon, and is the author of the Young Stranger blog. Though excommunicated from the LDS Church, John has a testimony, and has been active in his south Minneapolis ward since 2005.

John became an activist for greater understanding of LGBT people at the University of Minnesota in the late 1980s, and was instrumental in the establishment of one of the first university-based LGBT programs offices in the U.S. He pioneered the establishment of an inter-faith LGBT ministry at the University of Minnesota. For three years he was actively involved in Lutherans Concerned (now Reconciling Works), as a member of the Twin Cities Board, coordinating their “Reconciled in Christ” project for the state of Minnesota, helping to build a movement of LGBT-friendly Lutheran congregations. Over the years he has spoken in churches and community forums, on university campuses and in religious assemblies and conferences (including at the Sunstone Symposium and at Affirmation conferences) about the issues affecting LGBT people in communities of faith.

John has served as the Minnesota contact for Affirmation since the fall of 2005, and was part of the conference planning committee for the 2012 Affirmation conference in Seattle. He was actively involved as a volunteer, trainer, and faith community leader in the campaign that successfully defeated Minnesota Amendment 1, which would have constitutionally banned same-sex marriage in his home state. He organized Minnesota Mormons United for All Families, and the “Mormon Allies” contingent of the Twin Cities Gay Pride parade in 2012.

He currently lives in Minneapolis, Minnesota with his husband of over twenty years, to whom he was legally married in Riverside, California in July 2008, and with whom he has foster parented three sons.

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Tina Richerson

Tina Richerson grew up off the grid (without electricity or running water) in a part-member LDS home in the Columbia Gorge of Washington State she the second of six children. Her mother taught her faithfulness, charity, and to follow Jesus Christ. At age 13, while praying, Tina received a spiritual confirmation that, just like her uncle Michael, she too was gay.

In addition to her LDS upbringing, Tina’s life has been enriched by experiences in other religious traditions. In college she accompanied a girlfriend to a Pentecostal church, where she was received with open arms and felt God’s unconditional grace. Later she found a new spiritual path as she explored Zen Buddhism and began practicing daily sessions of meditation.

Eventually, Tina read the writings of Buddhist monk Thich Nhat Hanh who affirms that one cannot simply convert to Buddhism and leave one’s religious roots behind—that there must be a union of Buddhist practice and what one was raised to believe. “When I read this, I knew it to be true.” Tina says, “I knew that eventually I would have to return to the [LDS] church.”

Tina is currently active in her local LDS ward, where she’s out as a lesbian woman. She serves in her ward as the Ward Coir Director and in her Stake as the Director of the Family History Center. Tina also actively participates in the New York chapter of Affirmation.

In a talk given to her Relief Society she shared “I have learned that God’s will is not what I thought. I didn’t need to spend years trying to make myself straight. I just needed to ask for the guidance and courage to become who He created me to be, and He has given it to me, and continues to give it to me.”

Tina concluded her talk by quoting 1 John 4:18: “There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear.” She follows the belief that change can only happen from the inside out. Attending church will spawn the growth and awareness we need.

Tina is classically trained in saxophone performance. She is a member of the internationally acclaimed Tiptons Saxophone Quartet and Drums, founded in 1988. Music is her passion and life’s work. When Tina is not touring with the Tiptons, she can be found playing with her own ensemble. As well as being a freelance musician in New York City, she enjoys physical activity and healthy food.

To hear Tina play the saxophone, visit her official website or the band’s website at http://www.tiptonssaxquartet.com

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Karin Hendricks

Karin Hendricks grew up in Logan, UT in a loving and devout LDS family, and currently lives in Indiana with her spouse Tawnya. Karin has delighted in being a “mother” and “grandmother” to thousands of children and youth through her work as a music teacher and university professor. She and Tawnya also work locally, nationally, and internationally as researchers and advocates for music education, women, LGBTQ individuals, and youth.

Karin knew from an early age that she was “different,” and in her teens she began to privately meet with church leaders to find a way to change her sexual orientation. For the next 22 years she suppressed her same-sex attraction and endured a journey that mixed extreme church activity and leadership (including as President of every auxiliary organization) with various health problems, physical pain, and depression.

At age 39, Karin began a spiritual discernment process to help her reconcile her sexual orientation with her spirituality. It was in coming to recognize the powerful spirit in diverse places and people that she gained enough courage to be genuinely herself. She then came out to her parents and siblings, who amazed her with their unconditional love and genuine desire to understand. In her final trip to the temple, she had a powerful experience in which she came to understand that she should serve in a global capacity alongside her (then) best friend Tawnya. Karin and Tawnya were married in Massachusetts a year later, and have since enjoyed a loving, spirit-centered companionship that is modeled after the marriage ideals that were taught in both of their churches of origin.

Karin and Tawnya celebrate the diversity of divine expression in all people, religions, cultures, and individual life paths. Karin is grateful to Affirmation for providing her and others a safe and unconditionally loving space to be fully themselves. She is happy to serve among this community of unique individuals as they help one another cultivate a deeper inner peace.

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Tawnya Smith

Tawnya Smith serves Affirmation as the moderator of the Teleconference Series on Healing. Tawnya became affiliated with Affirmation through her partner Karin Hendricks, the Spiritual Director of Affirmation. Tawnya is an arts educator with training in expressive arts therapy, and is currently conducting interdisciplinary research concerning spirituality and states of conscious awareness in arts learning environments.

Tawnya currently identifies herself as inter-spiritual, however, she grew up in and was a member of the Church of the Brethren in her youth. In her early twenties, at the time she came out to herself, she stopped attending church and began to study other religious traditions. During her late twenties and early thirties, she continued this intellectual study of the world’s religions and attended the Unitarian Universalist Church. Later she began to attend a Mennonite Church (a similar denomination to the Church of the Brethren) where she began to integrate and reconcile her spiritual self with her religious roots. Since that time, she has continued to open to new understandings and deeper perceptions of spiritual truths in any form. She especially appreciates Ken Wilber’s idea of the Three Faces of the Divine (first, second, and third person experiences of the Divine) as she finds that this honors and integrates all spiritual experience. Tawnya became familiar with the LDS church during the time of her courtship with Karin as she attended sacrament meeting and sang in the ward choir. Currently, Tawnya and Karin are exploring inter-spiritual understandings with the guidance of a spiritual director.

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David Baker

David Baker grew up in Salt Lake City, Utah and Amarillo, Texas with dreams of becoming an Air Force pilot probably inspired by the movie Top Gun. It was watching that beach volleyball scene that he should have realized his sexuality, but instead he went on to keep his attractions repressed until his freshman year at BYU when, after conferring with his bishop it was determined it was best if he didn’t continue his education at BYU.

David spent the better part of 3 years struggling to accept his sexuality as a part of his life instead of continually repressing it. The repression took the form of Evergreen-supported counseling to try to change his orientation, deep depression, and a suicide attempt. David rose out of his despair after a personal revelation in the temple in which he was told of the Savior’s love for him and the plan that he had for David to search for a husband.

Graduating with a Bachelor of Science in Political Science from the University of Utah, David moved out to Washington DC where he finally embraced the love of the Savior, accepted himself fully and found a ward that embraced him as an openly gay Mormon. He has since served in that ward in several callings, most notably the chair of the cultural events committee. He loves his ward and the friends, allies, and fellow LGBT members that he has met and helped to come out while in that ward.

Far from becoming the Air Force pilot that he dreamed of as a child, David started working on political campaigns in Utah and ultimately in Washington DC. He now serves as a digital strategist to political campaigns and interest groups and enjoys every gut-wrenching moment of it because of the joy it brings. His favorite political experience is when he got to read the The Book of Mormon in the White House’s private library. In the little spare time he has you can find David reading a biography, fencing, playing video games, volunteering, or still following the Savior’s personal call and searching for a husband.

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Todd Richardson

Todd Richardson grew up in Grand Junction, Colorado. He comes from a large family, the eldest of 6 kids and 2 loving parents. Growing up, Todd realized he was attracted to the same sex but was convinced that when he found “the right girl,” the “problem” would go away.

After serving a mission and graduating from BYU, Todd moved to New York City to teach at a middle school. He busied himself with as much church service and work as possible, so as not to have to worry about his sexuality. Having no intention of ever coming out of the closet, focusing on other aspects of life seemed like the best use of his mental energy. However, randomly watching a YouTube video of a gay Mormon touched him deeply. It prompted him, for the first time in his life, to truly seek divine guidance with an open heart and mind. Self-acceptance came as he felt the undeniable peace of God’s acceptance-an acceptance he quickly realized had always been there.

From that peace came the desire to come out to friends and family. He is grateful for their unyielding support. He is also grateful for the lasting friendships he has made through Affirmation. Attending the Kirtland Affirmation conference in 2011 was a pivotal moment in Todd’s life; he is grateful for the opportunity to serve in the organization.

Currently Todd works at a charter school in Harlem, and goes to school in Maryland. He enjoys spending time with his family and friends, attending church, running, golfing, and vacationing.

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Alasdair Ekpenyong

Alasdair Ekpenyong is an undergraduate student at Brigham Young University. He is the first to admit that he does not have all the answers, and it is this sense of awareness that leads him to so value the work of creating safe spaces for spiritual growth and exploration and.

He believes that everyone can stand to benefit in some way from such practices as prayer, study, conversation, and introspection--everyone can stand to benefit from reflecting on past and present truths and discovering new truths.

Though well-versed in Mormon history and theology, Alasdair also studies many other forms of theism and nontheism as a participant in the interfaith academic community. He enjoys using the methods of postmodern critical theory to better understand the place of himself and others within contemporary society and culture.

Alasdair's writing has appeared in such forums as the BYU Student Review and the interfaith blog State of Formation. He hails from Baltimore, Maryland, and lives in the Salt Lake-Provo area.

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Trevor Cook

Trevor grew up in Mesa, Arizona, served a mission in Calgary, Canada, and graduated from BYU in International Relations and Linguistics. He used the time he saved not going on dates or having much of a social life to learn Chinese and continues to be fascinated by things China. He spent a year between Nanjing and Hong Kong after graduation and now is living a dream working at the US consulate in scenic Shenyang, Liaoning.

Although he enjoys the Middle Kingdom, Trevor misses hanging out with his five younger siblings and their growing families. He is grateful for a loving family and mostly happy childhood during which he was able to gain a testimony of a Heavenly Father and his love that has served him through later darker days and continues to sustain him. He is very proud of his parents who are reaching out to love and encourage a new and growing LGBT family at home in Arizona.

Sometimes Trevor wishes he could ditch his faith because it would make his life a lot easier. However, he can’t abandon his personal relationship with God, and--whatever life brings--he can’t see himself not praying. Similarly, while he has mixed feelings about the Church and his enthusiasm for the institution waxes and wanes, he believes in Zion and imagines he will always strive--in one way or another--to bring it about.

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Fred Bowers

Frederick “Fred” Bowers has been a part of Affirmation: Gay and Lesbian Mormons for over 20 years. Fred has served in leadership roles at the chapter and national levels for many years including: Washington DC Chapter Director; Chapter-at-Large Director; Assistant Vice President for Strategy and Development; Affirmation National Board of Directors; Conference Director; and founder and current Director of the Affirmation People of Color and Allies Group.

A former career U.S. Air Force Financial Management Senior Non-Commissioned Officer, Fred is currently employed as a management and technology consultant for a leading international consulting firm and is involved with its LGBT business resource group. He also is involved with Out and Equal Workplace Advocates as part of their People of Color Advisory Committee. He holds a bachelor’s degree in Organizational Management from John Brown University, and a dual master's degree in Public Administration and Management from Webster University. Fred is a native of Fort Worth, Texas, and currently resides in Arlington, Virginia.

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Lismarie & Michael Nyland

Mike and I met in 1995 while attending BYU in Provo, UT. We were married in 1997 and graduated together in 1998, Mike with a BA in Geography and Lismarie with a BFA in Design and Photography. We currently live in Bremerton, WA (a ferry ride away from Seattle) and stay busy raising two girls and two boys.

2012 was an eventful and busy year for our family as we became involved with Mormons for Marriage Equality, marched in the Seattle Pride Parade, and attended the Affirmation Conference in Seattle. We continue to support the cause of full acceptance and equality for all of our LGBT brothers and sisters.

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Suzi Fei

Suzi Fei lives in Portland, Oregon, and is a wife, a mother of one young daughter, and an active and devout Latter-day Saint. She has a Ph.D. in computational biology and is currently a postdoctoral researcher at Oregon Health & Science University studying cancer genomics. Over the years, she has served in many callings in the church including Relief Society presidencies and Oregon State University Latter-day Saint Student Association president.

Suzi has a deep love for LGBTQ Mormons and serves in several capacities that aim to increase love and acceptance within the church. She's on the steering committee for Mormons Building Bridges and the ally committee for Affirmation. She also formed a local group for gay Mormons in Oregon and SW Washington. Her husband, Yiyang, is on their stake’s high council and works with their stake president to train leaders and members in how to be more loving to gay members.

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Duane Andersen

Duane Andersen is a film producer, writer, and director. His films have been released theatrically throughout the world and have played at major festivals such as Sundance and South by Southwest. Films he has produced include White on Rice, Surrogate Valentine, Last Kind Words, Congratulations, Daylight Savings, Crazy Beats Strong Every Time, and others. He is also CEO of the start-up company Brainwave Accounting Systems which is developing accounting software for independent media projects. He received an MFA in painting from State University of New York at Buffalo and taught as an adjunct art professor at Brigham Young University for nine years.

While Duane works professionally out of Los Angeles, he lives in the lovely town of Salem, Utah with his wife Rachel and their three sons. An active member of his local LDS ward he has served as a Mission Leader, an Elders Quorum President, and as a Counselor in a Branch Presidency (in Brooklyn, NY). His involvement in Affirmation and other LGBT causes stems from being raised by progressive LDS parents in Palo Alto, California and from his close association with gay teachers, mentors, and friends throughout his life. Recently several of his film projects have been gay-themed including the forth coming drama Facing East based on the play by Carol Lynn Pearson and the documentary An Honest Liar: The Amazing Randi Story.

Duane has for years thought that what the church needed were its gay Jackie Robinsons. “Jackie Robinson was chosen to be the first black player to play in the major leagues by Dodger general manager, Branch Rickey, not because he was the best black player available, but because he had the strongest character,” says Duane. “Branch Rickey knew that he was the one who would not spit back, who would not give up, who would keep at it no matter what people said or did to him. We also need are more Branch Rickeys. We need the Bishops and Stake Presidents who are the ones speaking up. Who are standing behind their man (or woman), who are setting the tone.”

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Peter van der Walt

Peter van der Walt lives in Johannesburg, South Africa. He grew up in various small towns in a relatively staunch Calvinist family. He realized he was different at age four… and at age fourteen, in a conservative, Afrikaans high school, came out. After reading the Book of Mormon, pondering about its relevance to him as an out gay South African man and praying (for the first time in years), he had to come out again… but this time as a Mormon.

He began his career as clown at a local steakhouse… no, seriously. Since then he’s been a waiter, a guest house assistant, a bankteller, an assistant real estate assessor, an auctioneer and a medical practice manager – among other things. For the past ten years he stopped pretending to want a real job and he now writes professionally, in the communications and strategy fields.

He enjoys listening to and making music in his spare time, tortures himself at a gym, practices some martial arts (if he feels very inspired, say, after watching an old Kung Fu movie) and hangs out with family and friends.

Peter believes that being a Gay Mormon is a fascinating and amazing journey and that it should be a joyous one. It is true that there are many personal histories that include their share of hurts, scrapes, bumps and bruises – but it is also true that LGBT Mormons are loved by their Heavenly Father. Pete strongly advocates having some fun with your life and living each day as joyfully as possible.

Peter contributes to networking and communications, seeing service to Affirmation as a religious obligation for himself, as a gay Mormon… and as a way to make amazing friends all over the world and have some fun being both gay and Mormon. When it comes to living up to the measure of your creation, there’s no time like right now.

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Mark Schneider

Mark Schneider grew up in western Pennsylvania as a 2nd generation Mormon, the third of four siblings. An idealist at heart, Mark took his faith seriously and sought to please all the right people by doing all the right things, sometimes at the expense of being true to himself. At nineteen, he went on an LDS mission to Florida where he learned valuable lessons from the Haitian community there: levity in the face of hardship, faith in God’s ability to communicate with His children according to individual need, and how to eat enormous amounts of rice in one sitting.

Upon returning from his mission, Mark envisioned a typical LDS life for himself, one with a wife, kids, and a church calling. Instead, God put him on the eye-opening path of the gay Latter-day Saint. He learned what it meant to fast and pray and hope for a change that would not come. He learned what it meant to not fully belong in the Church and what it meant to not fully belong in the world either. And he learned that, in spite of what people say, sometimes even the “right” people, God cares less about who we love and more about how well.

While Mark does not count out the possibility of a wife, being one part gay and one part straight, he is committed to the cause of the LGBT community out of principle and out of love. From his Mormon eyes, he sees the full inclusion of LGBT Saints in the Church as a critical step in its long walk to Zion.

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Sam Noble

Sam Noble grew up in Muncie, Indiana, served a mission in Taiwan, studied business strategy at BYU, and has recently worked in Minneapolis for two years. Mark Twain said “Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” Sam has found that to ring true in his life as he’s successfully sought out opportunities to travel the globe since his mission, including working at the Beijing and London Olympics.

Although aware from a very young age of his attraction to other boys, Sam repressed his sexuality until after his mission. He then spent several years rediscovering God’s love and how his feelings for men align with that. During that time, he found love and support from Fred and Marilyn Matis and friends he met through their firesides. A counselor at BYU helped him come out to his wonderfully supportive family. He’s found love and truth to guide him in countless religious and secular settings, both in and out of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

He was introduced to Affirmation after meeting John Gustav-Wrathall while living in Minneapolis and is grateful and excited at the increased understanding happening in both LDS and LGBT communities. He has an ever-increasing testimony of the restored gospel and is currently active in the Muncie Indiana young-single-adult congregation.

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Justin

Justin hails from Fairfax, Virginia, and before that, Texas. He served an LDS mission from 2006-2008 in Seoul, Korea. He's currently in medical school in Cork, Ireland.

Justin came out to his family on Christmas day in 2004, when he was a freshman at BYU. It was his Christmas present to himself. Since then, his family and friends have learned a lot about what it means to be gay and are now quite accepting. He continues to be pleasantly surprised and humbled by their understanding.

Justin was raised LDS but lost the faith as he grew up. He came back to the church in 2006--a journey inspired in part by Stuart Matis's story. He's glad for many of his experiences in the church but sincerely hopes for change in the organization and looks forward to when the LGBTQ community is fully accepted.

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Prince Winbush

Prince Winbush III, 19, was born in Plano, Texas and grew up in suburban Chicago. He’s currently in his first year at Harold Washington College in Chicago, Illinois, studying Business Administration and Economics. Prince joined the LDS Church in 2008 with the full support of his Catholic family.

Prince came out to himself in late 2008 and struggled to tell his family for 4 years, but finally made the announcement in December of 2012. “I knew who I was and I knew my family still loved me, so I took the plunge,” Prince says.

Prince is still considering the next step--whether to continue with school or go on his mission. “I’ve wanted to be a missionary since the two elders knocked on my door and changed my life,” Prince says. He’s a bit hesitant as he fears making waves because of his sexual orientation.

This is Prince’s very first year in Affirmation. He found the group thanks to the Chicago Gay Pride Parade, where Affirmation Chicago marched. He’s very excited to meet new faces and work with everyone.

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Melanie Carbine

Melanie Carbine moved to Ann Arbor, Michigan from Salt Lake City when she was 10. Fortunate to have grown up in a self-selected Mormon community of liberals and intellectuals, she has always been able to appreciate her religion for its spiritual benefits and community. Ironically, even though the first two people she saw kiss in public were women, she didn't realize her bisexuality was notable or different. She assumed all people's sexuality was as fluid as hers and would regularly conform to social expectations.

This understanding changed when she studied English Literature and Asian American Studies at the University of Michigan, studying also with performance artist Holly Hughes. It was among discussions with her straight and gay friends in college that she realized she was like both. Melanie didn't want to give up her religion but didn't think she should have to choose, so she hoped for change among Mormons and went on a mission in the Marshall Islands.

Working with so many young people and living in a developing country led her to a change in her career path. She received her teaching certification in K-8, Math and English. Teaching Middle School Math and English in both the Marshall Islands and now the DC area, she happened to be in the right place to find Affirmation. It's definitely a wonder to her to see the possibility of active LGBT Mormons accepted by their church communities. She also enjoys drawing, glass art and reading. Above all she loves traveling, being outdoors, and visiting friends.

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Robert Moore

Robert grew up in Oregon and is 7th generation Mormon. When his family found out that he was gay, he was kicked out and disowned. He took what little money and clothing he had and bought a Greyhound bus ticket to Portland, Oregon.

“My first night sleeping on the street was very cold and rainy. On my second night in an effort to try to sleep indoors out of the cold put me in a situation that ended with me being raped." A few days later he was able to find a shelter for homeless youth. In the following months he found a paid internship and permanent housing.

Robert moved to San Francisco in 2007. Since the passage of Proposition 8 in California he has traveled the country fighting for Full Federal Equality for the LGBTQ community. Robert is an activist at heart and has stood up for marriage equality, women's rights, trans rights, worker's rights, LGBT people of faith, homelessness and suicide prevention. Since testing HIV positive on March 1, 2012 Robert is now working on HIV/AIDS awareness, advocacy and to end the stigma of people living with HIV/AIDS.

Since joining the leadership of Affirmation in 2009 Robert has served as the Young Adults Program Director, Outreach and Advocacy Director, Membership Director and in 2012 as Vice President.

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Peter Howland

I currently work as a data entry specialist for a non-profit organization in Salem, Oregon, while residing in McMinnville, Oregon. I have attended Affirmation conferences since 2009, which is shortly after I became honest with myself and acknowledged that I am gay.

My spiritual journey continues to evolve. I am currently inactive in the LDS Church, but still (as far as I know) on the Church membership rolls. My path has led back to the Episcopal Church, which was the church my parents attended while I was growing up. Currently, I serve my local parish as a member of the vestry (the governing board of the parish).

I have no desire to completely sever my ties with the LDS church, and I fully support the members of Affirmation in whatever relationship they choose to have with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Joining the LDS Church after missionary service age, I have not served a mission. However, I did host missionaries in my home for three years, which was an interesting experience.

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Rapha Fernandes

Rapha Fernandes, 22, lives in Guarujá, on the coastline of Brazil near São Paulo. He knew he was gay since he was a young boy. At age 17, Rapha fell in love with a returned missionary. They dated and lived together for a long time.

The relationship eventually fizzled out, and Rapha returned to his parents’ home. “I had my first interview with the bishop in the Church [and] my parents together, and the stake presidency and the bishop began ‘the therapy’ without much result,” says Rapha. “Today I live a normal life, I am happy, I love making friends and meeting new people. I love doing different things, traveling going to the movies, theater, and the beach.”

Trying to reconcile his orientation with the gospel was an overwhelming challenge for Rapha, who tried to commit suicide twice.

“The Lord has always comforted me, taking away all the feelings of confusion I had in my heart and turning them into a single feeling: I KNOW THAT MY SAVIOR LOVES ME, KNOWS ME, UNDERSTANDS MY HEART ABOVE ALL THINGS. That was enough for me to live from that day forward, accepting who I am, happy to be a member of the Church and not to be confused in any way.

“I know that when we need it, God’s holding us in his arms and saying in our hearts how important and big we are.”

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Carol Lynn Pearson

Carol Lynn Pearson’s first contribution to the LDS gay community came in 1986 with the publication of her book Goodbye, I Love You, which tells the story of her marriage to Gerald Pearson, a homosexual man, their divorce, ongoing friendship, and her caring for him as he died of AIDS. The book is credited by many as opening the conversation in many homes about the subject of AIDS and about homosexuality in general.

Since then Carol Lynn has spoken to and encouraged thousands of LDS gays and lesbians and their families, as well as educating church leaders about the damage being done through inaccurate and unloving teachings about this important subject. In 2006, twenty years after the publication of Goodbye, I Love You, she introduced a stage play, Facing East, which tells the story of a Mormon couple dealing with the suicide of their gay son. The play won the “Best Drama” award for the year from the Deseret News (tied with Hamlet at the Shakespeare Festival) and went on to a limited off-Broadway run, a run in San Francisco, and subsequent productions by many community theaters and universities.

Also in 2006 she published No More Goodbyes: Circling the Wagons around Our Gay Loved Ones, a book that has healed many families and saved lives. Her most recent work is a small gift book, The Hero’s Journey of the Gay and Lesbian Mormon, which she describes as a traveling companion to give LDS gay people a better vision of the calling they have been given.

Carol Lynn served as a resource to her stake presidency in the ground-breaking work they did in the Oakland Stake in 2009. A report on that work can be found at her website, www.clpearson.com, where her books are also available.

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Judy Finch

A convert to the church, Judy Finch is retired from a long career in elementary education. For nearly twenty years Judy has had a private psychotherapy practice, currently from her home office in the Oakland hills. Judy and her husband Richard have blended their family of six children in three states, soon-to-be 12 grandchildren and 4 great grandchildren.

“My interest and commitment in Affirmation results from a gay son and two gay grandsons who have all left the church,” says Judy. “Having negotiated the rocky path of parenting gays, I feel excited about positive changes in our society and our Church. I feel part of a beautiful process guided by our Heavenly Father to promote understanding and unity.”

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Jorge Valencia

Jorge Valencia has served since 2007 as the Executive Director of Point Foundation. The organization empowers promising LGBTQ students to achieve their full academic and leadership potential ­ despite the obstacles often put before them ­ to make a significant impact on society. He brings to this job a wealth of experience in managing and growing nonprofit organizations, a proven ability to design and manage the infrastructure of expanding organizations and extensive experience with, and sensitivity to, lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender and queer (LGBTQ) youth issues.

Before coming to Point Foundation, from 2001 - 2006 Jorge was the President and Executive Director of The Trevor Project. The Trevor Project is a nationwide non-profit organization established to promote acceptance of gay and questioning teenagers and to aid in suicide prevention by operating the nation’s first round-the-clock toll-free suicide prevention helpline aimed at LGBTQ youth. Jorge’s leadership contributed to Trevor’s growth as a nationally recognized youth service organization.

As an openly gay man who grew up in a Mormon Latino family in Texas, Jorge has a keen personal awareness of many of the issues of rejection and marginalization faced by many LGBTQ youth, including Point Scholars. He earned his Bachelor of Arts degree from Brigham Young University in 1989. While at BYU, Jorge served as Vice President in charge of social activities for ASBYU (Associated Students of Brigham Young University). He performed for two years with Lamanite Generation, a performing arts group that travelled to China with late Apostle Neal A. Maxwell and then the southern states during Jorge’s tenure. Jorge served an LDS mission to Brazil and taught at the Missionary Training Center (MTC) for two years upon returning home.

Jorge’s diversity of life experience includes extensive travel abroad and within the United States. He is fluent English, Spanish and Portuguese and is a talented and accomplished public speaker. Jorge has a passion for helping LGBTQ youth and an ability to communicate that interest and passion effectively to both the LGBTQ community and the general public.

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Gregory Prince

Dr. Gregory A. Prince was born and reared in Los Angeles, California. He attended Dixie College from 1965-67, graduating as valedictorian. He attended the UCLA School of Dentistry from 1969-73, again graduating as valedictorian. He received a Ph.D. in Pathology from UCLA in 1975, studying respiratory syncytial virus (RSV), the primary cause of infant pneumonia worldwide. Over a period of fifteen years at the National Institutes of Health and Johns Hopkins University, he and his co-workers developed the thesis that RSV disease could be prevented by administering antiviral antibodies to high-risk infants. He co-founded Virion Systems, Inc. to commercialize this thesis, and serves as its President and CEO. In 1989, Virion Systems and MedImmune, Inc. formed a joint venture to conduct clinical trials that ultimately resulted in the licensure by the Food and Drug Administration of RespiGam™ (1996), and Synagis™ (1998) for the prevention of RSV pneumonia in high-risk infants. Synagis™ is the first monoclonal antibody ever licensed for use against any infectious agent. He has published over 150 scientific papers.

In addition to a career in science, he has developed an avocation as a historian. His first book, Power From on High: The Development of Mormon Priesthood, was published in 1995; his second, David O. McKay and the Rise of Modern Mormonism, was the recipient of four awards and is in its sixth printing. He and his wife, JaLynn Rasmussen Prince, are the parents of three children. He serves on national advisory boards of six colleges and universities: Johns Hopkins University, Montgomery College, Wesley Theological Seminary, University of Utah, Dixie State College and Utah Valley University.

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Yvette Zobel

Yvette Zobel is originally an Idaho girl who spent her growing up years in Idaho Falls, Idaho . She journeyed next door to the state of Utah to attend Utah State University and has a degree in music with an emphasis in piano. After great adventures living in Washington, Oregon, and California, she and her family now reside in Utah. She has taught piano in her private piano studio for many years. She considers teaching music one of the most joyful professions possible! She is a wife and the mother of 4 children including a wonderful gay son. Yvette is an active and devout Latter-day Saint.

Yvette has deep love and respect for LDS LGBT individuals. She serves on the board of LDS Family Fellowship, a support group for friends and family of LGBT’s. Her passion and love for LGBT individuals has led her on a wonderful journey. As a result she has become friends with and worked with many great and noble people who have touched her life profoundly.

Yvette enjoys hiking, mountain biking, skiing, snowshoeing, working out, and dabbling in music composition.

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Doug Balls

Doug Balls is a man who loves the lessons of history and the world of travel. He grew up in the Cottonwood area of Salt Lake City. As a youth he spent his summers working on a ranch in the mountains of Northern Utah for his father. It was here that he acquired a deep appreciation and love for horses and the beauty and creation of nature. He served a mission for the LDS church in Scotland, attended the University of Utah, and later went onto embark on several entrepreneurial ventures mostly in the hospitality, travel and entertainment industry. Realizing his talents in event production and venue management, he has spent almost thirty years managing some of the finest venues in the world.

Doug knows that understanding is less important than that feeling of love and respect you can give to another. The goal is having more than mere acceptance, but experiencing the feeling of true inclusion and true pride. Currently residing in St. George, he lives his life expanding circles to bring others in. He is excited to be a part of Affirmation and is looking forward to making a difference.

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Wendy Montgomery

Wendy Montgomery was born and raised in Southern California. She has always been a member of the LDS Church. She and her husband were married in the Los Angeles Temple in 1995. They had 5 children in 7 years – not recommended. They found out in January of 2012 that their oldest son (13 years old at the time) was gay. It has at times been unbearably painful. But it has also been an enlightening, spiritual and joyful journey. Wendy has many new LGBT-supportive heroes in the LDS community. The Montgomery family lives in Central California. Wendy is a voracious reader, loves history, and is doing everything she knows how to make the LDS Church more welcoming and inclusive of its gay members.

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Ron Schow

Ron Schow splits his time between residences in both Pocatello, Idaho and Salt Lake City. He is Professor Emeritus at Idaho State University (ISU) where he has taught since 1975. Although semi-retired he continues to teach some in the School of Rehabilitation and Communication Sciences in the Division of Health Sciences.

A fifth generation Latter-day Saint with ancestors from Denmark and England, Ron grew up in Preston, Idaho. He served a mission for the LDS Church in the Central Atlantic States Mission (Virginia/N. Carolina, 1961-63). Later he graduated in Biology at Utah State University and then earned a Ph.D. in Audiology from Northwestern University in 1974. Before coming to ISU, he taught at Illinois State University (1972-75).

Ron is the author of numerous books and journal articles and was one of the editors of Peculiar People: Mormons and Same Sex Orientation (Signature Books, 1991). He had a close association with his nephew, Brad, who was gay and died of AIDS in 1986. That gave him a desire to study all the implications from professional and Church perspectives.

Ron has served in numerous church callings, including high council, bishopric, and as stake mission president. Currently, he serves as home evening chairman in a small branch for elderly members. He is the father of 5 children and 19 grandchildren. In addition to participating in his branch and stake in Idaho, he currently, attends when in Salt Lake City, an LDS ward and stake where sometimes there are several gay men attending. There he is in a supportive role to make the ward and stake a welcoming place for LGBT Latter-day Saints who continue to be or who might be encouraged toward activity in the Church.

Ron regularly attends LDS Reconciliation meetings in Salt Lake City, and Family Fellowship Forums in the Salt Lake/Provo area. These are groups in which he was a founding member and that he helped organize. LDS Reconciliation (now Affirmation FHE SLC) was formed in Idaho Falls in 1991 and continues to meet each Sunday night in Salt Lake City. Family Fellowship was formed in Salt Lake City in 1993. Many members of these groups are active in the Church and their meetings involve prayer, singing hymns and gospel discussion (Reconciliation) or scientific discussion (Family Fellowship) in a format which encourages wholeness and spirituality. Ron participates on the North Star Friends and Family discussion group and wants to support the emphasis in Affirmation of encouraging participation in the Church.

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Fred Bower

Frederick “Fred” Bowers has been a part of Affirmation: Gay and Lesbian Mormons for over 20 years. Fred has served in leadership roles at the chapter and national levels for many years including: Washington DC Chapter Director; Chapter-at-Large Director; Assistant Vice President for Strategy and Development; Affirmation National Board of Directors; Conference Director; and founder and current Director of the Affirmation People of Color and Allies Group.

A former career U.S. Air Force Financial Management Senior Non-Commissioned Officer, Fred is currently employed as a management and technology consultant for a leading international consulting firm and is involved with its LGBT business resource group. He also is involved with Out and Equal Workplace Advocates as part of their People of Color Advisory Committee. He holds a bachelor’s degree in Organizational Management from John Brown University, and a dual master's degree in Public Administration and Management from Webster University. Fred is a native of Fort Worth, Texas, and currently resides in Arlington, Virginia.

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Sam Wolfe

Sam Wolfe is a civil rights lawyer with the Southern Poverty Law Center where he helped launch the LGBT Rights Project and continues to help lead the nation-wide project. Sam’s work, often set in the deep south, focuses on achieving greater respect and equality for gay and transgender people. The project’s cutting edge legal action has been reported on the front page of The New York Times, CNN Presents, Rolling Stone Magazine, and in an hour long program for Anderson Cooper 360.

Previously, Sam was a litigation associate at a leading international law firm in New York City where his pro bono practice focused on representing LGBT clients. He is a graduate of the Georgetown University Law Center and is a member of the Alabama and New York bar associations. The National LGBT Bar Association recently recognized Sam as one of the Best LGBT Lawyers Under 40. Other experience includes service in the armed forces as part of a special operations team and as an English teacher in Taiwan where he also was a bungee jump master.

Sam is the oldest of twelve children. He completed a two-year Mormon mission in northern France, Luxembourg, and Belgium. Later, he obtained an undergraduate degree at BYU in Mandarin Chinese and international relations. Although he recognized his orientation much earlier, it was at BYU that Sam began activating as a queer Latter Day Saint. Sam has participated in Affirmation since “coming out” to his Mormon congregation during a fast and testimony meeting in 2006.

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Tom Christofferson

Tom Christofferson is the Chief Marketing Officer of J.P. Morgan Investor Services in New York City. Tom’s career in asset management and banking has given him opportunities to live and work in Europe and the US. Additionally, he has twice served on the global diversity council for his firm, and continues to be a senior sponsor there of its Pride business resource group. He is currently a member of the advisory board of his firm’s political action committee.

Tom was born in Utah and grew up in New Jersey, Illinois and Utah. He served as a full-time missionary for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in the Canada Montreal Mission. Before and after his missionary service, Tom attended BYU. As part of his coming-out process he was an active member of Affirmation in Los Angeles in the late 1980’s before moving to New York.

In addition to his efforts with Affirmation, Tom has served on the boards of numerous non-profit organizations, on the finance committees of Senate and Presidential campaigns and is currently as a member of the National Advisory Council for the David Eccles School of Business at the University of Utah. Tom lives in New Canaan, Connecticut, with his partner of eighteen years, Clarke Latimer.

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Anna Empey

I was born and raised in a small town in Washington state on my family farm. From a young age I knew I was different I couldn't pin point exactly how. It wasn't until I was at BYU in 2007 that I really realized that I was fully attracted to girls and that this was something I could not change. I recently graduated from BYU (December 2012) with a degree in Anthropology and I have been working in marketing and public relations.

In the last year, I have gone from fear and self-hate to more self-love and understanding for who I am. Now as I strive to understand who I am in terms of being Lesbian and LDS, a place that is uncomfortable at times, I am learning that I can accept and understand all of who I am without giving up either part of my identity. One of my goals in life is to make the world a better place, and help others understand their individual importance to those around them, that they are lovable and important.

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Ellen Koester

Ellen Koester grew up in Defiance, Ohio, and currently lives in downtown Salt Lake City. Ellen grew up dreaming of changing the world, and is currently studying constitutional law, and government policy, with the goal of becoming a civil rights lawyer.

Growing up Catholic in a small town, it didn't take much for her to realize that she was different from other girls. This internal contention caused rifts between her and her family that were made permanent when she joined the Church in 2009, and subsequently when she came out in 2011.

Ellen joined the Church knowing that the Gospel was true and pure, but was blinded by the missionaries claim that being baptized would bring blessings. After a failed attempt at a mission, and months of following the exact letter of the law, an experience in the Oquirrh Mountain Temple changed her entire outlook on life, and on being a lesbian in the Church. From that day forward, she has been active in her wards, while actively seeking, and engaging in same sex relationships. Her final goal is to find and marry a woman who can put up with her endless projects, overactive enthusiasm, and countless pranks and antics.

Latter Day Saint by summer, but Powder Day Saint by winter, Ellen is often caught sneaking out of the house in the early morning, skis in hand to catch the tram for first tracks at Snowbird and Alta. In milder season's however, Ellen trade's in her ski boots for a good book, and a jam session on her piano.

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Jamison Manwaring

Jamison lives in Salt Lake City and publicly came out in March of 2013 via a Youtube video. Subsequently, he and members of his family have done interviews with NPR's Weekend Edition, and other news organizations, about the experience of being a gay Mormon. He has found peace and happiness being his authentic self - an active believing Mormon and a gay man. He is dedicated to providing a supportive community at Affirmation for all LGBT Mormons who live with honesty and integrity regardless of life path including those who are a) in same-sex relationships, b) celibate, or c) enter into a mixed-orientation-marriage with full disclosure.

Jamison founded and leads the Affirmation Millennial group, envisioned the recent affirmation.org redesign and is a managing editor of the web-site. He joined the board of directors in January of 2014.

Jamison has been an Equity Analyst covering the software sector for Goldman Sachs since graduating from the University of Utah in 2012. Prior, he was a Summer Analyst for Barclays Capital in New York City. Before attended college, Jamison founded an online based real estate firm in Phoenix Arizona. He was born in Idaho Falls and is the youngest of 8 children.

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Bryan Clark

Bryan is a recent graduate from Brigham Young University, with a BS in Exercise Science. He spent his childhood in Upstate New York with his 8 siblings, two of them being his triplet sisters. While he remembers vividly in his childhood being attracted to the same sex, it wasn't till relentless attempts after his mission of dating woman, that he fully realized his sexuality. He believes that as hard as the experience has been in coming out, that it's made him a more loving, Christlike person.

As an running aficionado, Bryan enjoys training for marathons and hopes to one day run the Boston and then an Iron Man. In his free time, you can also always find him baking something in the kitchen, clinking away on the piano or acting out Parks and Recreation episodes with his friends.

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Patrick Wendel

Like many around here, I was born and raised in the LDS Church. I was born in Washington, but moved to Utah when I was young, so I was raised on the “Utah Mormon” bran. Went through life happy as could be, graduated from High school, graduated from seminary, and started getting ready to serve a mission. That is when the “shizz” hit the fan. I had struggled with porn for a few years, and in preparation for a mission, I was put on probation, to get things under control. My bishop, curious if it mattered that it was same sex porn, wrote to some uppity in Salt Lake to see what needed to be done to ready me for my mission. He advised counseling through LDS Family services. They have mission prep specialists there, and they would be able to determine if I would be ready to go and serve. So, into counseling I went. I was passed from one to another, who specialized in SSA issues. He was the first one who told me that it actually might not be a good idea for me to serve. I was adamant, and told him I would be serving. So, we tried working through different issues, and I learned some good things, but eventually hit a wall with him, and so I was switched to a different program. This one was specifically tailored to help young men with addictions to pornography. I love/hated that place. Learned a lot of great stuff, but again, it eventually stopped being useful and helpful. By that point, the counselor of that program told my Bishop that I was ready to put my papers in. My Bishop let me and my parents know that we were good to go, and that’s when I started feeling like I shouldn’t go on a mission. My parents did not like that as an answer. My bishop told me to pray again, because he thought I was getting wrong revelation.

From there, I went back to school up at Utah State where I had to start accepting the fact that I am gay. I couldn’t say exactly when I came out to myself as gay, it was a very gradual process. Mostly because, at the time, the church was still teaching that SSA is something that can eventually be “cured,” so even though I knew I liked guys, I still wasn’t “gay.” As I came to realize that this was something that wasn’t going to change, and as even the church started saying that we don’t know why people are this way, or if it will be something that is changed in this life, I had to start accepting the fact that this is how it would be the rest of my life. Then I went through the phase where I was still 100% devoted to the church’s teachings, and if they wanted me to stay celibate, then I would. I had to. From 2010, to 2012, That’s about how life went for me. Along with all this came feelings of depression, self-hatred, the works. I had only just begun to crack open the egg of emotional turmoil I held.

In 2013, everything changed for me. I started out the year just like any other, walking through campus with my head down, trying to avoid acknowledging the fact that there were very attractive guys walking past, trying to keep things under control, etc. But in one of my classes, I made friends with someone, (someone VERY attractive) and as the year went on, and our friendship grew, I ended up falling in love. Being in love completely changed my outlook on “SSA.” First of all, I can no longer think of it as a disease, or a problem, or a trial that I need to endure. No disease, no trial could possibly be so wonderful!! I truly felt that these feelings could come from God alone. It is by far the closest thing to God I have felt in my life thus far, and the surprising thing, was that these feelings were mine! They were coming from inside me! God is the source of all love and goodness. As his children, we carry that same capacity within us, and for the first time in my life, I felt just a glimpse of what it must be like to love as God loves. I could now believe that I was a child of God, because I found such a powerful manifestation of him, within me! It was incredible to feel that way about someone. Depression? Gone. Life was beautiful in ways it had never been. For years prior, I was overwhelmed with depression. I remember feeling shocked that life could hurt so much, and for so long! Nothing helped. And now, suddenly, it was exactly the opposite. I was shocked that life could feel so wonderful! Sleepless nights, fraught with loneliness and pain, were replaced with sleepless nights, giddy with the thought of seeing him the following day.

I could go on, but you get the idea. After an experience like that, I just couldn’t view SSA the same way. It couldn’t be bad. I knew it couldn’t, because nothing so wonderful could come from something ‘supposedly’ so evil. I was still very confused as the school year came to a close. At the time, I still didn’t realize how real it was. I was still doubting my feelings, their authenticity, and where they were coming from. When he left for the summer, life ended for me. I cried the first week. And the second. And the third. I would sit in church, tears running down my face all through sacrament. My bishop probably thought I was very spiritual. I wasn’t. I was going through my first heart break. And it hurt. That was last summer, and it still hasn’t stopped hurting. I still love him, and I am grateful that I do. Because as confusing as it has been, as I have started questioning my church leaders, and as I continue to question my feelings, and whether God affirms my love or not, It is nice to have that constant reminder that, ‘Hey, This is real.’ The feelings are powerful, and wonderful, and I cannot believe they come from anywhere but God. So, when the church tells me that marriage is between man and woman, and when an apostle compares my “inclination” to someone who is alcoholic, or has anger issues, it is there to remind me that they are not 100% correct. They don’t know what it is truly like. It has taught me that my spiritual development is up to me. My decisions in my life are between me and God. I no longer follow the structure of the church, and I have learned to take my spirituality into my own hands. I still love the church, and I still go. But everything is evaluated. I am a lot more cautious with my worship.

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Scott Halle

Scott studied Psychology at BYU and has been working in the child welfare world for the last 6 years. He recently enrolled at the University of Utah to go back to school for business. He served a mission in Oakland, California from 2005 - 2007. Scott came out to his family just two years ago after struggling to come to terms with his sexual orientation and his faith in the LDS church for many years. Though not active in the church, Scott hopes to one day see greater acceptance and love of LGBT mormons from church leaders and its members. Scott enjoys the outdoors and anything adventurous. He has been skydiving and bungee jumping multiple times and is always looking for something new and exciting to try. Scott joined Affirmation a year ago and has enjoyed meeting so many wonderful people supporting the LGBT community.

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Devin Bourne

Devin was born in Calgary, Canada but has grown up in Utah for the most part. The oldest of 6 children in a very Mormon family, he became aware that he had different feelings from the age of 4. As a teenager, he finally started to understand what these different feelings were, but tried his hardest to ignore and suppress them hoping that they would go away.

After many years of struggling alone, Devin came out to his Bishop and parents at age 18. He attended a year of counseling and then he served a mission in San Jose, California. Upon returning home, he continued to hope that he could find a way to marry a woman and have the stereotypical mormon family he has always wanted. But after several years of struggling and numerous experiences, Devin decided to change his perspective to one of more self acceptance.

Getting involved with several groups, he was able to make wonderful friends and find much needed peace in his struggle with his sexuality. The church has been a huge part of Devin’s life and he continues to attend and serve in his callings actively. “I love the Savior and I know this is where he wants me to be….in the church.” He hopes to show others that is possible to embrace your sexuality and still maintain your spirituality.

Devin is attending the University of Utah School of Pathology and will graduate with a Bachelors Degree in Medical Laboratory Science in May 2014. After graduation, he plans to apply to Medical School and fulfill his dream of becoming a Thoracic Surgeon. He loves playing the piano, traveling, reading, watching Star Trek, Nova, Downton Abbey, and The Big Bang Theory, and having fun with his amazing family.

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Derek Lundahl

Derek was raised in northern Utah county and is the oldest of 4 children.

After serving a mission in the south of France he furthered his education going from USU to UVU. Graduating in Biology with a minor in Music.

He's met with several church leaders in trying to understand his purpose and the origin of homosexual/heterosexual feelings.

While finding there are many opinions out in the world. He feels very strongly that God loves him and his fellow LGBT brothers and sisters. The Gospel of Jesus Christ is true.

Admittedly he doesn't have all the answers. But he does know that God gave him this life for a purpose. Knowing with all his heart that God wants him to happy.

When not in school or work he loves running, singing, cooking, being outdoors, swimming, random adventures, volunteering, traveling and playing with their dog Zoey. He loves serving and helping those in need, wherever he can.

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James Brinton

James Brinton is a native of Mesa, Arizona and has been a life-long member of the LDS church. After serving a mission in Japan, he pursued an education and moved to the east coast, where he works with individuals with disabilities in the Washington DC metropolitan area. As a counselor at Mesa Community College's Student Diversity and Leadership Retreat, he recognized a greater need for dialogue between groups within his own community, and has since helped plan interfaith service gatherings in Arizona and Washington DC.

After attending the DC Circling the Wagons Conference in 2012, he felt a growing desire to somehow be connected to the LDS ward and community where he lived. He now lives with his partner in Arlington, Virginia, attends his local ward and is very grateful for the blessings both bring into his life. He is inspired by the many LGBT individuals, allies, and family members across a spectrum of spiritual belief and experience who contribute to the conversation around the intersection of Mormonism and LGBT issues.

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